The article on the front page of the Erie Times yesterday, "Now, More Signs of the Times," 11/21/07, provides a good opportunity for local peace groups to challenge the pro-war, pro-Bush Erie County Republican party through letters to  the Edotor and press releases, to define just what "Victory" in Iraq would be.

We know what victory and defeat in W2 looked like: total formal surrender. We know what they looked like in Afghanistan for the Soviets and in Vietnam for the U.S. administrations that ordered those wars. Victory and defeat occurred when Soviet and U.S. forces withdrew. But what would victory and defeat look like in Iraq? Would we have "won" if we have to have 50,000+ troops in Iraq as long as we have had them in Europe and Korea?

Perhaps in addition to several people writing to the Erie Times to ask this question, eventually the "end the war" group should  ask for a public meeting of both sides to discuss what would constitute victory.

Maybe the other side has a clear idea. Or maybe this would show the bankruptcy of their thinking.